HUNTS...not sure I've spelled that correctly...

[Dougan]

Nope we don't this is the internet not a marriage!

The death of any animal for food or sport or pelt does not vary in its degree of wrongness just because of its level of "cuteness". Unless you have killed for food or sport this may have passed you by. Meat is murder, hunting is murder, farming is murder no matter its reason or method. Morally indefensible! We could all eat Tofu and live in a countryside full of lovely fluffy animals.

Here's how it works Dougan. We start slagging the Hunt, then maybe the stalkers, the pheasant shooters and nibble nibble GCN will come a knocking for your TR sport and nobody will be left to argue against it.

Why on earth on a shooting forum would anyone bring up an anti hunt story from over a decade ago?

OK then...see if you can answer a simple yes/no question without making irrelevant comment on it...

...do you think it's OK to hunt and kill deer and pheasants with dogs?

I won't make an irrelevant comment then.

On this occasion I will leave it to you Dougan.

What a cop out

[Browning_grrl]

Pass the .22 petition around those you know, see how they do :-)

Yet another 'foreigner' question - what's "the .22 petition".. ? Thanks. :)

[Dougan]

As you know we can't have any real (without long barrels and extensions behind the grip) pistols over here; which meant that even our Olympic team has to train abroad, and it also makes it almost impossible for new talent to get into the discipline, which is ridiculous...

...we are trying, by petition, to have .22 pistols brought back, but we're having trouble getting the required 100,000 signatures to get it raised in parliament...

...put 'pistol petition' into the forum search function; it's been discussed quite extensively.

[Little Phil]

As an aside my buddy went off to Hungary to shoot some driven wild pig. It was sit in a high seat job until the pigs were driven past, then get stuck in and fill your boots. It turned out that these "wild" pigs are actually bred for shooting then driven past the guns as "sport". My oppo wasn't impressed and has never returned.

Another friend of mine has shot elephant in Africa, these beasts are protected from poachers until a rich guy pays good money to venture overseas and shoot the bloody things. Seems to me that the pigs and indeed elephant are bred to be culled. Not much different to our grouse and pheasants in the long run.

Phil*

[Dougan]

Seems really daft to breed pigs to shoot when their populations are so out of control in some places that they have to be culled...

...as for paying to shoot a protected species; well what can you say...

[Swamp Donkey]

As an aside my buddy went off to Hungary to shoot some driven wild pig. It was sit in a high seat job until the pigs were driven past, then get stuck in and fill your boots. It turned out that these "wild" pigs are actually bred for shooting then driven past the guns as "sport". My oppo wasn't impressed and has never returned.

Another friend of mine has shot elephant in Africa, these beasts are protected from poachers until a rich guy pays good money to venture overseas and shoot the bloody things. Seems to me that the pigs and indeed elephant are bred to be culled. Not much different to our grouse and pheasants in the long run.

Phil*

Said 'rich guy' spends a vast amount for the chance, and by doing so, shoots an old or injured specimen, which is then split up and shared out amongst local people, the money paid, is used to fund anti poaching initiatives saving a significantly larger amount of beasts than the one that has just paid for it all.

[Dougan]

As an aside my buddy went off to Hungary to shoot some driven wild pig. It was sit in a high seat job until the pigs were driven past, then get stuck in and fill your boots. It turned out that these "wild" pigs are actually bred for shooting then driven past the guns as "sport". My oppo wasn't impressed and has never returned.

Another friend of mine has shot elephant in Africa, these beasts are protected from poachers until a rich guy pays good money to venture overseas and shoot the bloody things. Seems to me that the pigs and indeed elephant are bred to be culled. Not much different to our grouse and pheasants in the long run.

Phil*

Said 'rich guy' spends a vast amount for the chance, and by doing so, shoots an old or injured specimen, which is then split up and shared out amongst local people, the money paid, is used to fund anti poaching initiatives saving a significantly larger amount of beasts than the one that has just paid for it all.

I get what your saying to some extent...this side of the story was discussed on here before when pictures were shown of a guy posing with a giraff he'd shot; on balance the benefits almost justified it...

...but elephants?...their numbers are decreasing rapidly...and as Phil points out; it's very hypocritical when a local can be shot for poaching one...

[Chuck]

After all guns are monstrously powerful things designed to kill people.

That's just anti gun rhetoric nonsesnse - guns are made to fire projectiles.

It's the person holding the gun that decides what to shoot / kill with it.

Let's get this right - I have NO issues with hunting per se, as long as it's for the pot. Breeding animals for the food chain is what we do - eating tofu is NOT what we do.

What I do have an issue with (and IF it is true) is breeding foxes just so they can be hunted, that's just weird IMO.

It's nowt to do with being anti hunt or anti anything. It's to do with breeding animals for selfish blood sport "killing for killings sake" purposes that WILL get the public agitated big time. Pity people cannot see that aspect of it. IF they ARE breeding foxes just to release and kill them and for NO OTHER REASON than that then it sure as hell will bring the anti nuts down on anything hunting - shooting - fishing - related.

If they are so hell bent on killing stuff they can always b#gg#r off to Syriah and shoot some terrorists. I'm always saying we should all support each other - but this was NOT sport, just a sick hobby. At any rate it IS an old story and hopefully is NOT happening today.

[Swamp Donkey]

As an aside my buddy went off to Hungary to shoot some driven wild pig. It was sit in a high seat job until the pigs were driven past, then get stuck in and fill your boots. It turned out that these "wild" pigs are actually bred for shooting then driven past the guns as "sport". My oppo wasn't impressed and has never returned.

Another friend of mine has shot elephant in Africa, these beasts are protected from poachers until a rich guy pays good money to venture overseas and shoot the bloody things. Seems to me that the pigs and indeed elephant are bred to be culled. Not much different to our grouse and pheasants in the long run.

Phil*

Said 'rich guy' spends a vast amount for the chance, and by doing so, shoots an old or injured specimen, which is then split up and shared out amongst local people, the money paid, is used to fund anti poaching initiatives saving a significantly larger amount of beasts than the one that has just paid for it all.

I get what your saying to some extent...this side of the story was discussed on here before when pictures were shown of a guy posing with a giraff he'd shot; on balance the benefits almost justified it...

...but elephants?...their numbers are decreasing rapidly...and as Phil points out; it's very hypocritical when a local can be shot for poaching one...

Old bull elephants can get very aggressive in their old age, it's normally the old Bulls that get culled, or if they can't do 'the business' but are still the alpha bull, they will be culled to allow a younger bull to breed.

Poachers don't use the carcass, only the Ivory. That's like shooting a nice roebuck and only taking his antlers, and leaving the rest to rot.

[Countryman]

After all guns are monstrously powerful things designed to kill people.

That's just anti gun rhetoric nonsesnse - guns are made to fire projectiles.

It's the person holding the gun that decides what to shoot / kill with it.

Let's get this right - I have NO issues with hunting per se, as long as it's for the pot. Breeding animals for the food chain is what we do - eating tofu is NOT what we do.

What I do have an issue with (and IF it is true) is breeding foxes just so they can be hunted, that's just weird IMO.

It's nowt to do with being anti hunt or anti anything. It's to do with breeding animals for selfish blood sport "killing for killings sake" purposes that WILL get the public agitated big time. Pity people cannot see that aspect of it. IF they ARE breeding foxes just to release and kill them and for NO OTHER REASON than that then it sure as hell will bring the anti nuts down on anything hunting - shooting - fishing - related.

If they are so hell bent on killing stuff they can always b#gg#r off to Syriah and shoot some terrorists. I'm always saying we should all support each other - but this was NOT sport, just a sick hobby. At any rate it IS an old story and hopefully is NOT happening today.

Chuck that's the usual misinformed line from those who would end shooting though.

Realistically there are many places in the world where numerous species would be wiped out if there was not conservation to balance the numbers between those born and those shot. This is conducted on the basis of the revenue from hunters.

So these animals are bred to be killed for sport.

I doubt very much that foxes were ever bred to be hunted but as I said earlier it wouldn't be a surprise if habitat suitable was left as fox cover to ensure that their population wasn't completely eradicated in an area used by the hunt.

I really don't get the problem some of you seem to have with an animal being bred for profit by hunting compared to an animal being bred for profit by farming.

Remember the British countryside only looks as it does because of the conservation that gamekeepers put in. We would otherwise have 10,000 acre farms with not a hedgerow in sight like they do in the States.