577/450 Martini cases from 24g brass shotgun cases

[Ovenpaa]

hi all,
martini's are really addictive so beware! i shoot a mk1, artillery and a cavalry carbine. loading for them is'nt really a problem, more of an art, i cast my own heads and wrap them with nitrated paper, 70grns of med powder for the rifle and 50grns for the carbines, charge the cases with powder, place a cardboard wad (beer mat thick) down the neck followed by a beeswax/lard disc then a .45 felt wad, seat the bullet and your away .
i don't shoot serious target, i just enjoy shooting old guns, as long as it hits the target area i'm happy, having said that you can get good groupings if you work at the loads for each rifle and play around with lubes/patches/wads ect.
as with all antique guns bear in mind their age and give 'em a bit of respect, at the end of the day you don't own the gun, your only looking after it untill it is passed on to the next person.
,
bb
p.s in answer to the original thread you can get preformed cases ranging from £3.50 to £5.50, i just buy a few now and then and in no time you have a bit of stock

Some good tips, thanks for that Bob and I do agree, we are custodians of such rifles, looking after them for the next owner.

[Tower75]

Neat.

Thanks for the video. I've always wanted a Martini-Henry. I've fired a few rounds through a couple and I liked 'em. I put 4 rounds rapid through a MkIV rifle once... prone. My shoulder! My feet carved little trenches in the grass an' all. Ouch.

I'm put off my a few things, though. I've always seen a MH as a "grown up's gun". You need skill to own one. My engineering skills are zip, so I couldn't make the brass, I can't cast - tried. Set the kitchen on fire, the dies are about £85, plus the rifles them selves aren't cheap.

Maybe if I gain a bit more confidence with my other military-surplus "classics" I'll try my hand at a MH.

[targetman]

What is a good model to look for and are there any tips or pitfalls with buying/owning one?

I have found that the MKiv is easiest in use as the long lever helps extraction, the trigger is better and the barrel are usually "tighter" and less worn. Having said that the Westley Richards Francotte Patent has nine groove rifling as opposed to the seven grove of the standard MH and will, with the right ammunition, hold the black easily out to 500/600 yards. Plus the action can be dropped out of the block for cleaning and adjustment, not something easily done with the standard MH. To remove the action on a MH is retatively easy, to replace it you need three hands !!

The MKivs seem to be the cheapest option at the moment. Dies can be expensive although the Lee dies are cheapest and very good but are of the 1 1/4" variety that not all presses can take. There are usually dies and cases for sale at meetings like the Trafalgar and the Phoenix on the trade stands.

I no longer cast my own bullets, there are many suppliers of bullets now, some better than others. For plinking I use a 457" of about 500 grains with plenty of grease and 80 grains of BP, lots of smoke, a good thump and it will hit the target at 200 yards very nicely. For something a bit more serious I use a swaged, paper patched bullet of 480 grains over 85 grains of BP to emulate the original loading, this will shoot quite well out to 500/600 yards. The sights uually being the limiting factor, especially with my tired old things.....

There is an excellent book: "The Martini Henry Notebook" by Malcom Cobb which is the best book I have ever seen on the MH, on its history and on shooting it today. It appears to be currently out of print but I am sure it will be available again soon.

[targetman]

I meant to have added that no matter which model of Martini Henry you have....just think of the history of it.

Everytime I pick up one of mine I think of the history of it, where it might have been.

And anybody that shoots a Martini Henry and tells you that when doing so they do not think of the film "ZULU" is lying...

[dromia]

They are accurate as well as fun.

This is a 100yrd 5 shot group from my MK IV shot rested from the trench, there are three rounds in the top cluster. The shot out of the group to the right was called.



I do cheat a little as I use an old Ross MKIII back sight, its an aperture with windage adjustment and it fits the original sight bed without any alteration.

Load 85 gns Swiss No5 to base of the neck, card wad, 1/4" beeswax wad column, card wad and a 495 gn boolit from a Barry Darr mould pure lead with a smidgeon 5% tin to help fill out, paper patched to 0.471", groove diameter on this rifle.

Brown Bess, why do you patch with nitrated paper? I use nitrated blotting paper if I feel the need to reduce case capacity but am interested in why you would nitrate the boolit patch.

[brownbess]

hi dromia,
i'd really like to be clever and scientific about the nitrated paper patch but the only reason i do it is that the bloke who taught me to reload snider, martini, westly richards ect had the theory that burning up any possible obstruction is a positive, i know the patch should exit the barrel with the bullit but if it got left behind i suppose its good if it burns up!
don't know how into muzzle loaders you are but i've just started load/ bullet testing on a patt 51 enfield, if i can work out how to post pictures i will put some up and load data to.

bb

[Tower75]

You own a P51!!?

Pictures! Pictures, now!

[dromia]

Yes, pictures of your P51 Minie rifle would be welcome indeed.

The combustable patch theory seems like an answer looking for a question.

It would be interesting to know what happens to the base of the patch during its time in the barrel, if it was to burn off then the boolit could be more likely to shed the rest of its patch in the barrel perhaps?

Do you get paper in front of the muzzle?

Have you ever retrieved fired boolits and do they have the patch on them?

If so how do they look?

Just curious and if it works for you then good luck with it.

[brownbess]

i suppose that the nitrated paper is a bit of a spin off from loading westly richards paper formed cartridges, when fired there is virtually no residue left in the chamber.
with the martini heads i wrap the paper about 2/3rds up and tuck the remainder up into the cavity of the bullit. i hav'nt recovered any from the sand but will make a point of doing so next time i shoot one.
could'nt tell me where the info on how to post pictures is could you?
many thanks,
bb

[dromia]

Do you use a hosting site?