Mini shells (1 3/4") in section 2 shotguns

[poll007]

So as of last week, Mini shells have gotten a SAAMI spec for standardised manufacturing sizes (as the 1 3/4" 12 bore).

this means that more manufacturers might start making then, increasing the supply, which as always means more may trickle into the uk market.

this made me wonder how they might effect the UK, primarily, how it would effect section 2 shotguns that by law can only have 2 loaded in the magazine (if semi auto or pump).

in reality this is probably just a case of, if you loaded more than 2 you'd be breaking the law, much in the same way as people making cut shells or wax slugs but id be interested to hear other opinions.

that and since i have a section 1 slot and hope to do some more PSG once i pick one up it would be interesting to see how it could be of benefit in competitions.

[Blackstuff]

More of a novelty that anything that's going to help you in any IPSC rulebook competition IMO.

I'd be quite surprised if they run in semis and pumps reliably, but IF they did, i'd be again be surprised if they make the minimum power factor to qualify for use. Do you have the muzzle velocity/shot weight data?

They're only really of use in tube magazine guns and Standard, Standard Manual and Modified all have max round limits prior to starting a course of fire (9, 9 and 14 respectively), so no advantage out of the gate. There is however no limit of how many you put in the gun after the BEEP goes. So the next problem will be getting them into the gun, fast. AFAIK there are no race loading rigs available for them so that means putting them in one at a time which is never going to come close to quad-loading regular sized cartridges.

Even if a sexto-loading or octo-loading rig was built, I think there's a specific rule that limits how many cartridges can be aligned in a manner that would prevent its use in competition ( I THINK its 2 cartridges on top of one another, therefore quadloading is the max).

If they run your gun reliably I could see them being a lot of fun on the range for plinking, or in other countries for home defence.

I share your opinion, put more than 2 in the mag of a S2 shotgun and you'd be breaking the law.

[Geek]

Minor point, however, section 2 shotguns can be 2+1

[mag41uk]

I got some 2inch 12g carts when I first started in TSG.
Don't work too well in an 1187.

[Blackstuff]

Minor point, however, section 2 shotguns can be 2+1

They can be 2+1+1 with ghost loading, its just the number in the magazine that's the important part.

[Sandgroper]

Not sure if it was on here, but I read that someone asked the HO this question and their answer was as long as the magazine capacity was no more than two in the shell length the shotgun was proofed for, then the shotgun was still S2 even if loaded with a smaller shell. The example used was 2" shells in a 3" chambered S2 shotgun. But don't quote me!

[poll007]

Minor point, however, section 2 shotguns can be 2+1

They can be 2+1+1 with ghost loading, its just the number in the magazine that's the important part.

Exactly why i specified 2 in the magazine in my post

I take it in the 2+1+1 scenario you would have one in the chamber, one on the loading gate and 2 in the magazine?

[walesdave]

2.15 When assessing the magazine capacity of a firearm, consideration should be given to
the number of cartridges that the firearm was designed or proofed to take. For example,
where a shotgun has a magazine which is capable of holding three cartridges but was
designed to hold only two, the shotgun should be considered a section 2 firearm rather
than a section 1 firearm.

Home Office Guidance 2016.....although as my local FEO has said (not in relation to shotguns), it's only guidance, they don't have to follow it

[BamBam]

Hull Comp X are the shortest 28g carts I've used. When I started out with PSG 7 years ago I had a 5 shot Mossy 500 and I could get another cart in the mag using them. My M2 feeds those just fine, but I suspect anything shorter won't cycle.

[Blackstuff]

Minor point, however, section 2 shotguns can be 2+1

They can be 2+1+1 with ghost loading, its just the number in the magazine that's the important part.

Exactly why i specified 2 in the magazine in my post

I take it in the 2+1+1 scenario you would have one in the chamber, one on the loading gate and 2 in the magazine?

Yep. Just as a caveat though, i'm not aware that's ever been tested in court or even fully scrutinised by an FLD, I just got it as an 'opinion' from an FEO.