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Hello all, I’m hoping someone can help, I’ve been handloading for my rifle calibre guns for a number of years and although I’m not what I’d call a ‘real’ handloader (I do it out of necessity rather than enjoyment), I’ve never really ‘gone wrong’ and have been able to work up some pretty decent .223 and .308 rounds.

Short version; I cannot get my Redding dies to give consistent OAL results, plus I’m looking for help/ideas for 9mm loads, preferably an all-rounder supersonic and a dedicated subsonic loading. The dies are shown below (did not come with instructions) but are case sizing and depriming die, case flaring die and bullet seater and crimping die (see photo 1)

I’m using CBC cases, CCI primers and either Maxam CSB5 or Alliant Unique powder, but am open to other powder suggestions of proven loads. The gun I’m using prefers 115gr bullets and I would need a minimum velocity for the all-rounder load of 1090fps but would prefer something in the 1200-1300fps range.

I am looking for an easily available, reasonably priced non-plain FMJ round, (so either flat nosed/tipped or JSP or HP) the Hornady HAP 115gr bullet seem to fit the bill but I am wary of loading such angular bullets (see below regarding the truncated bullet I’ve already tried). I am not interested in cast bullets at this time.

Long version:

I’ve previously had a 9mm rifle but never handloaded for it as back then factory ammo was both cheap enough not to make it a necessity and I didn’t really want anything other than a bog standard range/FMJ round.

Fast forward to the here and now and I have a SGC lever-action rifle that I want to load for as factory 9mm has gotten stupidly priced, mainly thanks to the Yanks, and I want to try something more interesting that plain Jane round-nosed FMJ.

My set up is a Lee 4 hole turret press with Redding dies (but I prime and powder fill off-press). All of my other handloading has been done with Lee Ultimate Die sets and I’ve had great results/consistency. I got the Reddings as they were on offer (on here I think) a while back and thought they’d be handy if I ever got into handloading it, plus Redding dies have a great reputation.

So far the rounds have been pretty inconsistent OAL with these dies, no matter what bullet type I’ve tried, which to date have been left to right – RG RN FMJ 124gr, Speer JSP 115gr, RG TRFN 148gr, Sierra JHP 90gr, Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator 115gr (see photo 2).

While I accept there will be some variation due to differences in the bullets themselves I can get variances of 0.15-0.2” between the same bullet design?! With my Lee Ultimate dies, say on .223 its like 0.01-0.02 max.

I don’t know if the seating dies between pistol bullets and rifle bullets just ‘naturally’ give a less consistent OAL, if there is something wrong with my Redding seating die, or I’m just doing something fundamentally wrong. The seating die also marrs the bullets putting a ring on the softer nosed designs. I have been using bullet and powder manufacturer data and Lees Modern Reloading 2nd Edition.


Side note: Is it even possible to load truncated nosed bullets for anything other than revolvers?? With the ones I tried (3rd from left above) I had to seat the bullet to the very edge of where the angle starts before it would even chamber properly, given the size of the bullet I’m fairly sure it was compressing the powder. See go/no go practice rounds below, needless to say I didn’t try firing any of these (See photo 3)

N.B. I'm aware of the uber-strict policy now on this site regarding handloading data. I take full responsibility for all information I have published and will not use anyone elses information without double checking it from a known source first. Please feel free to PM me if in doubt.

it sounds like either your cases aren't opening out enough when sizing (I use lee, so the powder die flares it too) or the seating die is too far in and crimping while you're still trying to seat.

I use T/C flat point plated bullets like in your pic in all my 9mm pistols with no issue. I find RN bullets are pain to seat straight

I like the los bullets from blackrifle

you'll probably want to go up to 145gr bullets to get subsonic loads. I can look up my load data later, but I like true blue for my normal loads.

The perfectionists will go mad , but dont worry too much about overall length .
If they fit well and feed from a magazine , they are ok .

A taper crimo die will give best and consistent results though .

Way back I used to load a 133 grain Keith SWC sized down for my Star 9mm . It didnt give 10 ring accuracy , but they were all in the black , and that was with mixed RG cases and god knows how old berdan primers .
So dont rule lead bullets out .

The first thing I would do is check that there is no `lift` in the turret when you raise the ram, It has been my experience that over time Lee turrets can wear and move when in use.
I would also add that bullets do vary in ogive and length and will give differences in OAL if the seating die is locked in one position.

My method is to set up my seating die to the desired OAL with a dummy round, then mark the position of the top punch adjuster and die body with a felt tip marker.
I then back off the top punch slightly and `walk` each bullet into the case whilst checking with a vernier gauge until the seating depth is correct.

A bit long winded I know, but at the end of the batch I can guarantee each cartridge is the same length.

The problem with jacketed bullets is that they are often made en-mass frequently on several machines, which means that tolerances may vary.

If you want consistency in a bullet, the best example I can offer, is a batch of cast bullets that are all made from the same batch of alloy and cast in the same mould.

Finally, I will take issue with the previous posters comments on varying seating depths not being of any consequence. You may be able to be a bit cavalier with rifle rounds but when you are talking about small cases such as 9mm, inconsistency of seating depth can lead to pressure issues.

ukrifleman

This ^^^^

9mm headspaces on the case mouth. The crimp needs to be a taper, but not so tight it deforms bullets.

Likewise, cases have to be consistently the same length and within spec.

Check your case length and rest your seating die.

Powder wise, Vhit N350. Best 9mm powder.

Trim your cases so they are all the same length.

bradaz11 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:40 am
I use T/C flat point plated bullets like in your pic in all my 9mm pistols with no issue. I find RN bullets are pain to seat straight

When loaded do they look like the rounds in my picture? i.e. literally right on the edge of when the angle of the bullet starts?

Thanks for the info guys, looks like i'm going to be doing the same amount of case prep as I do with my rifle stuff (my most loathed part of the whole thing ).

All of the US loading sites and Youtube videos I've looked at have said not to bother with case trimming for 9mm, and the cases I measured, as mentioned in the US information, were all short of the SAAMI spec of 0.754" (being between 0.740-0.746" - none were the 'full' length, including the factory stuff I measured (Geco, S&B and PPU) or even the fired stuff. It made sense to me that a short case wouldn't matter when it came to OAL length measurement as its from the case head to the bullet tip, the case mouth 'shouldn't' be relevant?? Obviously not!

As the cases are shorter than spec, will it just be a matter of choosing a length and trimming all the cases to said length, e.g. 0.745"? Will that mean binning all those that a less than that? Will a Lee Quick Trim die* allow me to trim to less than the 'correct' spec??

*I use Lee Quick Trim for my rifle cases so it makes sense to use it for this as well.

I'm borrowing a set of Lyman dies from a friend in a couple of weeks and it looks like they have a taper die, hopefully that will help matters too.

Blackstuff wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:48 am

bradaz11 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:40 am
I use T/C flat point plated bullets like in your pic in all my 9mm pistols with no issue. I find RN bullets are pain to seat straight

When loaded do they look like the rounds in my picture? i.e. literally right on the edge of when the angle of the bullet starts?

no, I load to OAL, and ensure they fit in the mag. remember tc/fp have a different OAL to RN.

generally with 9mm it's trim once. and I believe saami spec is the max case length, not the operative case length. I've never trimmed a 9mm para case, not only that, if your cases *were* too short, then you'd be seating the bullets out farther, not deeper. I'll dig out some ammo tonight for you, I can also send you some bullets if you like?