Proposed HSE lead ban

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Alpha1
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#31 Post by Alpha1 »

MetalMagus wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:18 am Alpha1, Interested to understand, are you intending to use the lead free on a MOD range or a private range. I keep finding conflicting information. But the last I saw from the NRA was that the use of lead free on MOD ranges is not allowed. This was from 2021. Is anyone aware if this has changed?
I am not planning on using them on a MOD range. You are not allowed to use them on a MOD range.
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#32 Post by MetalMagus »

Thanks for the feedback. I think all the replies have more than confirmed regarding the MOD's rules for the lead free ammo. But in recent weeks I had come across a few posts saying that it was possible albeit with certain restrictions. Looking back through some of them on other sites, I think the poster was getting themselves confused with the HME restrictions. Wonder if and when the MOD will collect the data regarding ricochets and keep projectiles within the safe zones for the range.
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#33 Post by Graham M »

Just received this email from MP Gary Sambrook


-----------------------------------------------------------
Ministerial  
Correspondence 
Caxton House 
Tothill Street 
LONDON 
SW1H 9DA 
  
0207 340 4000 
www.gov.uk  
ministers@dwp.gov.uk 
Gary Sambrook MP 

gary.sambrook.mp@parliament.uk Dear Gary, 
Our ref: MC2022/52832 21 July 2022 

As you may know, your email of 30 June to the Cabinet Office has been  passed to this Department. You wrote on behalf of Mr MXXXXXX  about restriction  proposals on the use of lead shot and bullets. I am replying as the  Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work. 
On 29 April 2021, the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) received a  request from the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural  Affairs (Defra), with the agreement of the Scottish and Welsh  Governments, to prepare a restriction report assessing the use of lead in  ammunition under the UK Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and  Restriction of Chemicals (REACH) Regulations. This relates to concerns  to both human health and the environment. The harm of lead  ammunition to wildfowl is of particular concern as poisoning from  ingesting lead ammunition causes long-term suffering and slow, painful  deaths for animals. 
Although the hunting of wildfowl with lead shot has been illegal since  1999 in the UK, surveys carried out from 2001 to 2013 show that the  proportion of ducks killed with lead shot increased from 68 per cent to 77  per cent. The HSE and the Environment Agency, who are supporting the  HSE in developing the restriction report, reviewed the evidence from  Great Britain which demonstrates a risk from all shooting of lead, not just  over wetlands. The restriction dossier summarises the evidence base for  the hazard and risk posed by the use of lead ammunition to both human  health and the environment and identifies risk management options to  control these.
The HSE is not proposing a total ban on the use of lead bullets. A  derogation to allow the continued use of lead bullets for sports shooting  at ranges that have appropriate risk management measures in place has  also been proposed in the restriction dossier. In addition, an optional  derogation for the continued use of lead shot for sports shooting could  be considered for licenced suppliers to sell to licenced athletes for use at  licenced ranges. These derogations require further consideration to  ensure that any licensing scheme required will be practical and  proportionate. 
To help the HSE understand how to provide the most effective,  proportionate and practical approach to manage risks to health and the  environment, a public consultation was launched on 6 May this year to  gather information from relevant stakeholders, which will run for six  months. This information will also enable the restriction report to be  based on the best available evidence. To accompany the consultation,  the HSE is asking questions of different groups affected by the  restriction. These groups include, but are not restricted to,  manufacturers, sellers, users of ammunition and operators of shooting  ranges. 
I would like to thank Mr MXXXXXX for commenting on the restriction  proposals and encourage him to formally submit any comments or  evidence of the impact of the proposed restrictions to the public  consultation. Following the closure of the public consultation on 6  November, the HSE will publish a response. HSE and the Environment  Agency are also preparing draft opinions and engaging with independent  experts on the REACH Independent Scientific Expert Pool (RISEP), who  form a Challenge Panel providing knowledge, scrutiny and challenge  during the opinion-forming stage. There will be further engagement and  another public consultation which will inform final opinions, before being  passed to the Appropriate Authorities (the Defra Secretary of State and  the Scottish and Welsh Ministers) for consideration and decision making  in 2023. The opinions will be published on HSE’s website. 
I hope Mr MXXXXXX will find this reply helpful. 
Best wishes,  

Chloe Smith MP 
Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work
-------------------------------------------------------------


Still nothing about vermin control on farmland though.
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#34 Post by Blackstuff »

Or sport shooting that doesn't take place on 'licensed ranges', such as the majority of clay pigeon shooting, and a good deal of practical shotgun.

Have people actually been on the consultation and filled it in?? To suggest it is in anyway a fair and reasonable questionnaire would make even Boris blush. The questions mainly consist on YOU guesstimating how many people do certain shooting activities in the entire country. 5mith Fortunately they are free-form boxes and you are able to response with the appropriate level of contempt the pointless questions deserve. green55

At least we know who to lynch when this is all over now. troutslapping :squirrel:
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#35 Post by kevinww »

As the military are exempt, this is a complete crock, as the backstops / bullet catchers have no way of knowing if it’s a civilian or military round made of lead. So the military can stick 100s of thousands of rounds into the backstop but a civilian can’t put one round. Typical nanny state logic.
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#36 Post by Blackstuff »

kevinww wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:00 pm As the military are exempt, this is a complete crock, as the backstops / bullet catchers have no way of knowing if it’s a civilian or military round made of lead. So the military can stick 100s of thousands of rounds into the backstop but a civilian can’t put one round. Typical nanny state logic.
I would assume MOD/Landmarc ranges would fall under the 'authorised range' exemption. Its the private ranges/shooting land thats at the greater threat to my reading of it.
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#37 Post by Blackstuff »

So this is BASC's response to the lead ban consultation (or rather a summary of it). No wonder they've only released it at the 11th hour;

https://basc.org.uk/basc-response-to-uk ... sultation/

If anyone is still daft enough to still be a member of this lot could you please ask them for where the "clear evidence" is that people are being poisoned by consumption of lead shot game birds?
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#38 Post by Graham M »

So I could still use my target rifle with lead bullets but my vermin control is out the window as I won't be able to use lead. So where the hell is all this "Evidence".
BASC are a bunch of self serving W*** and it pi$$es me off that they started this lot off and are now trying to make it look as though they are making it all better. They are only interested in shotguns and the occasional deer shoot. So very expensive copper will be OK there then.
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#39 Post by Dark Skies »

Blackstuff wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:42 am So this is BASC's response to the lead ban consultation (or rather a summary of it). No wonder they've only released it at the 11th hour;

https://basc.org.uk/basc-response-to-uk ... sultation/

If anyone is still daft enough to still be a member of this lot could you please ask them for where the "clear evidence" is that people are being poisoned by consumption of lead shot game birds?
Agreed. When they're not appeasing those who wish to damage shooting sports, they're actively involved in the dismantling of it.
They're turkeys looking forward to Crimbo. f*** tards.
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Alpha1
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Re: Proposed HSE lead ban

#40 Post by Alpha1 »

How anyone can support or be a member of BASC is beyond me. I have taken the decision to sell anything that shoots lead or lead jacketed bullets before anything I own becomes worthless.
So after at least 50 years plus of shooting I can see the writing on the wall I need to find another hobby.
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