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paul mercer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:17 am Thanks for that, but as I read it it applies to a member of a club who does not have an FAC to enable them to use the club guns on the club premises, I cannot see that it authorises a club member who does not have a FAC to take a club gun to another range.
What can be done however is for the club chairman or secretary to give written authority to authorise a specified FAC holder to take the club gun to that range for the non FAC member to use, providing it is returned to the club armoury at the end of the shoot.

That is your interpretation so your opinion, which you are welcome to, however it is not what the guidance/law says.

Ultimately it is the courts that would decide on a legal interpretation, however as our "national" bodies (corpses) are just a bunch of gutless, self serving, vested interest, bastards that is unlikely to happen.

So the current arbiters of interpreting the guidance/law are the firearms certification departments, especially in lieu of a total lack of agreed national approaches to firearms certification they should be the first point of call for "clarity" on the current local thinking as they will ultimately be the enforcers of whatever interpretation they have at any point in time.

Everything else is just internet story recounting, waffle and speculation.

We all should know speculation is futile.

Dromia if you are referring to my comment then I will point out that I had a discussion with my local FEO on a similar matter some years ago and he was of the same view. In fact he was perhaps a little bit more relaxed on the subject than I was and it was he who brought up the subject.

No 'twas Paul Mercer's post I was referring to, yours landed whilst I was working on the reply.

I have now quoted the post I am referring to so as to avoid the confusion.

paul mercer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:17 am Thanks for that, but as I read it it applies to a member of a club who does not have an FAC to enable them to use the club guns on the club premises, I cannot see that it authorises a club member who does not have a FAC to take a club gun to another range.
What can be done however is for the club chairman or secretary to give written authority to authorise a specified FAC holder to take the club gun to that range for the non FAC member to use, providing it is returned to the club armoury at the end of the shoot.

A member of a rifle club may, without holding a firearm certificate, have in his possession a rifle and ammunition when engaged as a member of the club in connection with target shooting. This EXACTLY means a club member can take a club gun to another range for a club shoot, the written authority exists already in firearms legislation, no need for your club chairman to write anything. Don't forget that if you are running a miniature rifle range you don't even need a FAC at all to buy guns/ammo not exceeding .23 calibre under the miniature rifle club exemption.

paul mercer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:17 am What can be done however is for the club chairman or secretary to give written authority to authorise a specified FAC holder to take the club gun to that range for the non FAC member to use, providing it is returned to the club armoury at the end of the shoot.

where in law, does the club chairman or secretary get the power to authorise someone to do anything? the law says you can do it, they are now adding on more self made rules that have no basis in law.

DanTheMan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:23 pm

paul mercer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:17 am Thanks for that, but as I read it it applies to a member of a club who does not have an FAC to enable them to use the club guns on the club premises, I cannot see that it authorises a club member who does not have a FAC to take a club gun to another range.
What can be done however is for the club chairman or secretary to give written authority to authorise a specified FAC holder to take the club gun to that range for the non FAC member to use, providing it is returned to the club armoury at the end of the shoot.

A member of a rifle club may, without holding a firearm certificate, have in his possession a rifle and ammunition when engaged as a member of the club in connection with target shooting. This EXACTLY means a club member can take a club gun to another range for a club shoot, the written authority exists already in firearms legislation, no need for your club chairman to write anything. Don't forget that if you are running a miniature rifle range you don't even need a FAC at all to buy guns/ammo not exceeding .23 calibre under the miniature rifle club exemption.

That is not what it means at all. What it means is if for example the Club is shooting on a MOD range normally a committee person who holds a FAC and is in possession of a Club gun would transport the gun and ammo to the range for use by normally probationers who do not have a FAC whilst being supervised. A club member who does not have a FAC would never be allowed to swan off with a Club gun.

Alpha1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:38 pm That is not what it means at all. What it means is if for example the Club is shooting on a MOD range normally a committee person who holds a FAC and is in possession of a Club gun would transport the gun and ammo to the range for use by normally probationers who do not have a FAC whilst being supervised. A club member who does not have a FAC would never be allowed to swan off with a Club gun.

Please link to the legislation that says this ?

bradaz11 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:49 pm

paul mercer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:17 am What can be done however is for the club chairman or secretary to give written authority to authorise a specified FAC holder to take the club gun to that range for the non FAC member to use, providing it is returned to the club armoury at the end of the shoot.

where in law, does the club chairman or secretary get the power to authorise someone to do anything? the law says you can do it, they are now adding on more self made rules that have no basis in law.

The Club Secretary can authorise usually committee members to have Club guns in there possession for use for example on Club underlever nights or .22 Club nights or for use on MOD shoots. This is normally done by working with your Local licencing department. I had a Club Lee Enfield and a Club .308 in my possession for several years that was not on my certificate but the local licencing new I had them because they were informed by the Club Secretary. I was issued with a copy of the Clubs certificate and a covering letter explaining why I had them in my possession. I also had an underlever for guys with out a FAC to use as I ran the underlever night at the Club.

DanTheMan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:47 pm

Alpha1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:38 pm That is not what it means at all. What it means is if for example the Club is shooting on a MOD range normally a committee person who holds a FAC and is in possession of a Club gun would transport the gun and ammo to the range for use by normally probationers who do not have a FAC whilst being supervised. A club member who does not have a FAC would never be allowed to swan off with a Club gun.

Please link to the legislation that says this ?

If you are that concerned about what the legislation actually means I suggest you give your licencing authority a ring and ask them for clarification. I will be intrested in there reply to your queery. What do I know I have only been at this for 40 years.
I am a Long standing Club Secretary. I am in daily communication with Landmarc for use of MOD ranges. A committee member involved in training at at least two Clubs. Run full bore shoots and organise training for probationers and new shooters on MOD and Club ranges.
There is no way a none FAC holder would ever leave one of my Clubs with a firearm to take to another range and shoot it. The first time that happens I will be on the phone to the Police to stop him or her

I think this is one of those things that, by the letter of the law, is legal. However, I am not going to be trying it out and taking my chances in court. At my club, we have the club FAC plus a letter with listed authorised persons who can transport guns and buy ammunition against the club certificate. I use this regularly for shoots at Bisley etc. I wouldn't personally risk it taking them without having those with me, although, by the wording of the law it would be legal.