NRA Handloaders certification.

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dromia
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#21 Post by dromia »

He didn't say it was a download (that confusing word again).

Maybe 'twas of the Yanque NRA publications, which are quiet prolific and helpful.
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#22 Post by the running man »

I welcome some kind of test,ive seen some dangerous stuff over the years and ide like to think I prevented a few incidents too by telling them to "please don't shoot that",ive 38 wadcutters stuffed right down inside the case,ive seen 303 downloads with the bullet barely in the case,I could go on but I'm sure most here have seen similar.....I wouldn't like to see the test be expensive or time consuming tho....
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#23 Post by dromia »

The problem would be the quality of the test.

The NRA would be totally unfit to organise such a thing as past experience shows, they choose to be totally ignorant of "real world shooting" beyond Bisley.

Would a test make things any safer? Idiots are idiots!
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#24 Post by redcat »

I know people who have passed a driving test but still cannot drive safely. A test would prove that you are competent on the day under controlled conditions. Nobody sets out (I hope) to assemble dangerous hand loads but mistakes will happen.

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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#25 Post by bradaz11 »

well, how would they even know you are using handloaded ammunition? would they demand to see your FAC and look for ammo purchases?

as for downloads, I agree with Dromia, what is it? if they want to ban a certain cartidge / chambering, well ok. but to say downloads? at what point do they class it as a download? If I buy subsonic 9mm is that a download? if I load my own subsonic 9mm, is that? If I want to shoot lighter lead bullets in a 303 case, and so use the appropriate amount of powder for that to be shot at 100yrds only, then where is the issue or risk to them with that?

what is so abhorent to them, that someone may want to feed their aging rifle a less potent diet to give it a healthier life? or may want to have a softer shooting round for target shooting? or maybe they aren't as young as they once were or sustained some injury and still want to enjoy the sport of going bang?

as long as your rounds are safe, what is the issue? and before you say oh well if Z sees X shooting a lower velocity Y on the range, then that may lead to Z shooting a higher velocity Y on that same range. it is your responsibility to check the range limits and ensure your loads meet it. so even if you see someone shooting something on the range, that doesn't mean you can.

Doesn't Bisley have a load of RO's who police you taking guns out of bags etc? all they have to do is say, hey is that a low velocity loading on that 50cal? and if you say no, politely point out ME etc might exceed range limits.

I know I can't shoot my 9mm magnum (356TSW) at what would be book loadings, on my 7.3 range, but I can shoot 9mm. so I just load it to 9mm book velocities. by the NRA's logic, I can now no longer shoot that gun at it's heritage site.
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#26 Post by Blackstuff »

bradaz11 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:46 am as long as your rounds are safe, what is the issue?
That IS the issue, are they safe? There have been several accidents at Bisley attributed to inappropriate handloads and this is the ar£e covering exercise so when someone is injured (or worse) its not their insurance picking up the tab. teanews
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#27 Post by bradaz11 »

Blackstuff wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:29 am
bradaz11 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:46 am as long as your rounds are safe, what is the issue?
That IS the issue, are they safe? There have been several accidents at Bisley attributed to inappropriate handloads and this is the ar£e covering exercise so when someone is injured (or worse) its not their insurance picking up the tab. teanews
but loading properly to a lower than book velocity is as safe as loading to book. the key word is properly. If you aren't able to do that, then loading to book is just as much of a risk.

how do they know they are loaded at home and not factory?
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#28 Post by poll007 »

bradaz11 wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:58 am
Blackstuff wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:29 am
bradaz11 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:46 am as long as your rounds are safe, what is the issue?
That IS the issue, are they safe? There have been several accidents at Bisley attributed to inappropriate handloads and this is the ar£e covering exercise so when someone is injured (or worse) its not their insurance picking up the tab. teanews
but loading properly to a lower than book velocity is as safe as loading to book. the key word is properly. If you aren't able to do that, then loading to book is just as much of a risk.

how do they know they are loaded at home and not factory?
Obviously its hard to tell something is a home load if they aren't told it is but as others have said its an insurance thing. if something goes wrong due to the ammunition they will follow the trail to determine who is at fault and hope their insurance won't have to pay for it.

If you say it was factory ammo bought from x RFD then they will go "great-go make a claim though them who in turn will make a claim from the ammo manufacturer". If its a home load they would likely ask for proof of the loading to see if it meets their new code of conduct and if it doesn't they can wipe their hands of it as you didn't follow there rules.
A club member recently had a .44 round detonate in the tube magazine of their lever gun, first question from the NRA is what ammo were you shooting and where did you get it, they were none to happy to find out it was factory ammo he just bought from the NRA armory.

the "no downloads" is more of a monitoring thing for them. they dont have ROs actively on the ranges most of the time, so if they see someone get a lee enfield out on the gallery range they would need to send someone down to stop them. making the rule of "no downloads" means they dont have to factor in if they had a gallery suitable load or not (the ROs have said similarly to inform the range office if you will be shooting an air pistol that looks like a regular handgun because if they see what looks like a glock they have to go down and investigate in case someone has decided to pop along with a S5 pistol). On a similar note, one of my indoor ranges had a member shoot a full power .45-70 by mistake because he had mixed it in with his "downloads". so again you have to cater towards the lowest common denominator in some cases for safety.

Its annoying for the historic side where a lot of calibres wont have pressure tested date to use. even my Lyman loading book has a bunch of .303 loads in it but no pressure data.
I cant wait to see what happens for this years F class and similar shoots where everyone has super specific loads for individual guns.
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#29 Post by dromia »

The ever shrinking world of UK shooting.
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Re: NRA Handloaders certification.

#30 Post by Blackstuff »

bradaz11 wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:58 am
Blackstuff wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:29 am
bradaz11 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:46 am as long as your rounds are safe, what is the issue?
That IS the issue, are they safe? There have been several accidents at Bisley attributed to inappropriate handloads and this is the ar£e covering exercise so when someone is injured (or worse) its not their insurance picking up the tab. teanews
but loading properly to a lower than book velocity is as safe as loading to book. the key word is properly. If you aren't able to do that, then loading to book is just as much of a risk.

how do they know they are loaded at home and not factory?
I didn't say it wasn't. THIS is the entire issue. They've had to set a standard (which may be lower than some of the handloaders on here, but a standard nonetheless) and if you're found not to meet it (only AFTER something has gone wrong of course), then you're the one footing the bill, not the NRA/Bisley/MOD/Landmarc

The easiest way to tell if someone is using handloaded or factory ammo I've found at rifle ranges is simply because factory loads come out of factory boxes, handloads come in handloaders boxes/already in magazines etc. Obviously theres a simple way of defrauding that but that would take forethought that most people don't consider when they're just trying to enjoy their sport.
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