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Individual wrote:

Chapuis wrote:It's not just the velocity issue that prevents the use of .17hmr, how much .17hmr ammunition have you seen that isn't classed as expanding?
I am told that you can obtain non expanding .17hmr but I have never seen any.

Is 17HMR only available for live quarry or can you also have it purely for target shooting?

There are two problems with .17hmr the first is that it exceeds the velocity limit that was previously imposed on rimfire ranges by the army when they issued range safety certificates. The second is the availability of non expanding ammunition. The amended firearms act prevents you from using expanding ammunition for target shooting. (Limited practise and zeroing is permited for those whose certificates are conditioned for possession of expanding ammunition but not target or competition shooting.)

Some interesting comment here. .17HMR is a relatively new round so in all probability the 2150 ft/sec max was set historically before .17HMR was available and nobody has bothered to look at it since to accomodate new cartridge introductions. For its size .17HMR is certainly a potent little round, but with the best will in the world its energy, which is the most important aspect of safety considerations, is way down, around 245 ft/lbs, on the 1496 ft/lbs that is allowed on Melville. To even suggest .17HMR presents more of a safety problem than .357 or .44 magnum or a fully loaded black powder pistol shooting .50 cal balls is quite ridiculous, since all of these are currently allowed to be shot on Melville. As to expanding ammunition there is no difference to .22LR. Both .17HMR and .22LR cartridges are available in various loadings and as there is a solid in .22LR there is an FMJ in .17HMR, so that cannot be held up as an objection either. I can just about understand .17HMR being restricted on indoor .22 ranges, but on an outdoor range suitable for full bore centrefire calibres it makes little sense. As previously stated the proximity of the Running Deer to Melville (alongside!), where 7.62 is used at >2600 ft/secs, the Danger area behind the range must be sufficient for that calibre, so to say it is insufficient for .17HMR beggars belief. I think we must accept that .17HMR has been overlooked as it was a late comer after the rules were decided. So please NRA, a time to look again. I am awaiting a reply from the NRA to a question based on the foregoing, so will post an update on the basis of that; I understand anyone in a position to reply is on leave so a while maybe.

Fullbore wrote:You can't shoot that calibre at our club either, apparently it has enough velocity to drill through the walls.

I wonder if anyone has seen it drill through a wall? My experience of .17HMR is that it shatters if it hits a twig. Are we talking brick walls here or Japanese paper screens :cool2: I'm pretty certain that if .22LR won't go through it a .17HMR won't either.

quite right, absolutely crazy rules................

ColinR - I keep meaning to say welcome to the F-B(UK) Forum.

It sounds like you know Bisley rather well, what disciplines do you shoot?

They are not too keen on 12 gauge slug either,

I don't know,

DM

As regards the conditions on certificates - how do you practice and zero effectively without using targets??

Well u do it out on the farm,u also shoot bits of metal and wood and apples and oranges to see the ballistic effects,all out of harms way of course..... I can tell u that a .17hmr goes through yale door key at 50m stops at apound coin though!

ovenpaa wrote:ColinR - I keep meaning to say welcome to the F-B(UK) Forum.

It sounds like you know Bisley rather well, what disciplines do you shoot?

Hi ovenpaa
I've been going to Bisley quite a lot recently with my partners son getting him through his probationary, which he has now done and is a full member. I was fortunate enough to be allowed to sit in on all the courses and I have to say even as a long time shooter I learned a lot. Those probationary courses are superb and Charles P is a star turn at making the important points understandable.

As a result of this I have joined the NRASC and shoot on most booked days. Because the boy is still quite inexperience, but developing as a good shot, we mostly shoot my AI AWM 7.62 on Short Siberia at 100/200 yds. I am also a member of the Fifty Cal club where I can shoot a .338 AI - usually on Warminster IR2 range at 900m.

During the probationary stint I saw the enjoyment of shooting the Marlin .357 on Melville so acquired one just for the fun and shoot on Melville. Since I do a bit of vermin control with .22 and .17HMR that's where this thread started when I wanted to zero the .17HMR on Melville and was told it was not allowed.

My shooting started years ago with pistol shooting and Running Deer at Bisley and going on to do Practical Pistol until the ban. I tried shotgun but didn't take to it other than in the field and had a few years off target shooting of all types. A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to be invited to a military range where we got to shoot all the current weapons including link fed automatics. The bug was revived and the rest is pretty much history. As far as Bisley is concerned I have seen considerable changes since the 70's and in all ways it has developed surprisingly well, so I am hopeful the new directions being considered will do nothing to compromise the wonderful ethos and tradition that has built up over the years. It is a very special place and not just for the shooting.

ColinR wrote:I've been going to Bisley quite a lot recently with my partners son getting him through his probationary, which he has now done and is a full member. I was fortunate enough to be allowed to sit in on all the courses and I have to say even as a long time shooter I learned a lot. Those probationary courses are superb and Charles P is a star turn at making the important points understandable.

As a result of this I have joined the NRASC and shoot on most booked days. ...............................

When my son sat his probationary course at his first club 2-3 years ago I went through the reading material and dummy exam with him and found it very informative albeit skewed towards Target Shooting. We spent a happy morning going through the micrometer adjustment of target sights which I had not used for ages and he had never seen. My son also started Fullbore shooting with my AI and these days owns one of his own, downside is it sits in my cabinet so I get to clean it after it has been used however he has recently moved to his first house so once he has finished decorating the Granddaughters bedroom and all the other tasks I rather hope he will apply for his FAC and free up some space for me.

Christel and I are both members of the NRASC so hopefully we will meet up at some point when we can free up some spare time.

Oh and beware those young eyes! They can outshoot us every time, these days I have to resort to every trick I know to gain the upper hand especially at 1000 yards plus.