Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

Made or missed the shot of a lifetime? Share your shooting trips with everyone. Tell us about it. We won't laugh, honest!

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TattooedGun
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Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#1 Post by TattooedGun »

So I finally got out with my new rifle (Rem 700 Police with Bushnell Elite and Harris Bipod in .223).

Picked up my exes mom (EM) and headed over to Kingsbury by 8 o clock, she made sausage sandwiches for on the way, always a good start! :D

We set out by 7:15 and got there bang on 8 o clock. Signed in with Hereford and Worcester and dragged our kit down to the FP.

I was on detail 2 so I was down the butts for the first detail... more anticipation and watching how everyone else was shooting, sitting wondering if I would even hit the target frame, never mind the V-Bull... New rifle, new reloaded/untested ammo, and not having zeroed!!

The marking dragged on and dragged on, meanwhile it hadn't stopped raining since we fetched the target frames out of the shed!

End of detail 1 and we made our way back to the 300 yard FP, and it was nearly time to give it some!

EM had been on RCO duty and got thoroughly soaked during the first detail, so when it came down to the second detail, she didn't want to shoot at all, just try and dry off. In fairness, it was bitterly cold and horridly wet.

I put my mat on the FP and waited patiently until the red flag got lowered at the butts... the rain was still coming, drizzling, almost relentlessly... I thought about what it might do to my rifle, but then thought "I've waited all damn week to shoot this rifle, it could be hailing and as long as I could see the target I'd give it a go!"...

The flag got lowered and my ammo and rifle moved forward (I kinda like the lack of equipment having a scoped rifle entails! I got to shoot in my nice warm fleece lined coat, and not have to worry about jacket, sling, glove or having a spotting scope to assemble and drag forward and back!).

I lay down and had already advised the RCO that I may well miss and that if the buts could let me know where it goes I'd appreciate it.

Bullet number 1... I was impatient, too impatient to tell the RCO I was about to shoot and for the butts to be ready... loaded, locked, target aquired... BANG!

and the target stayed motionless... I'd missed. My bore sighting career was off to a bad start. needless to say the butts werent looking at this point, so RCO came over and informed them I was about to take another shot.

Bullet number 2... Bang... this time a message back on the radio, I'd hit the top of the sand bank...

I brought it down around 8 Minutes and loaded another round.

Bang, the frame went down!! Oh yes, I hit something!!

It came back up and there was a 1! I hit the white, but atleast I hit it! from here I could find my way to the centre of the target!

Right, which way do I move the dials on the scope?

I had no clue.

I moved it down so it was on the waterline but moved it the wrong way left and right.

Bang, another 1... out to the left. I'd given myself the first 2 misses as extra shots... from here on out I was marking these on my sheet. 2 sighters and all I'd got was 1's!

Time to make the difference. I wound on the windage (or so I thought) enough to get me from the white to the V-bull.

Pulled the trigger and up came the smily face on a triangular stick! I'd missed!! WHAT, how can this be?!

I wound the sights the wrong way! Doh! First to count and its a complete miss!

Sights wound back again, and I hd a fairly successful shoot.

Overall I dropped 10 points (including the 5 from the complete miss) and I hit 6 V-bulls - towards the end, they werent straying far from the V-bull - but it took a while to get it there, mainly because I still hadn't clocked which way to turn the dials on the scope, it was more blind luck than anything (I still don't know, although I'm going to find out and put a note in my case for next time!).

So, not too bad for a first outting. The ammo behaved spectacularly, any cockups I'd called beforehand or I'd wound the sights the wrong way. The rifle was a pleasure to shoot, the trigger pull is smooth and crisp. and I can't fault the scope. Slight Chromatic Abberation around the black where it meets the right... but I'm not taking pictures with it, so it more than does OKAY!

EM was still damp and a bit miserable by this point and she had lost all interest in shooting for the day. I'd had fun, but also knew it was Mothers day and still hadn't bought a card or gift for my mom, I also had band practice to get home and get ready for, so we called it a day at 300 yards and had some lunch in the car before the drive home.

As we drove home, the sun peeked out and made me wish I'd stuck around and seen what i could do out to 600 with it, but theres always next time!

I can't wait to get out with it again! Next shoot is pencilled in for 1st April I believe, and this time my dad wants to come have a go with it too!

As it was so wet and miserable, I avoided taking any photos :( Hope you enjoyed reading! :)
M99

Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#2 Post by M99 »

Does your scope not have (idiot guide) arrows showing which way point of impact moves? :o

Surprised you found the trigger sweet out of the box as they are normally quite heavy - best thing I ever did for mine was a custom trigger thanks to my local gunsmith - money well spent.

Mike
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Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#3 Post by Ovenpaa »

Sounds like a brilliant day regardless of the weather but where are the pictures?

Christel has a sheet with her drops on, at the very top left is a big 'L' and 'R' on the right and then under this are some pictures of the drums with arrows for up/down left/right, then her drop tables and some other information. She never leaves home without it.

I was out Saturday with the S&L which has a Kahles 'scope on it and I had to constantly check the windage drum to confirm which way move POI right was. I am still getting used to the 'scope so it pays to check.
/d

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Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#4 Post by TattooedGun »

The scope does have arrows with the direction on it, but I was completely confused if that moved the point of impact, or the crosshairs :cry:

I'm not sure why the trigger is so good? My dad reckons it'd be below the 1.5kg TR limit, but I can't find the rules regarding trigger pull on F/TR - I believe it would just be "safe" which mine definately is :)
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Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#5 Post by Ovenpaa »

Usually an arrow and the letter or word (R/Right. U/Up) denote the direction the point of impact moves. The rules for F/TR only call for a safe trigger from memory. I have handled a couple of F Class rifles recently which have scarily light single stage triggers, a matter of a few grams at most.
/d

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Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#6 Post by TattooedGun »

ovenpaa wrote:Usually an arrow and the letter or word (R/Right. U/Up) denote the direction the point of impact moves. The rules for F/TR only call for a safe trigger from memory. I have handled a couple of F Class rifles recently which have scarily light single stage triggers, a matter of a few grams at most.
I think it helped that I had a week of messing with, bore sighting, and pretty much dry firing it over and over and getting used to the rifle, I got to the range and I knew where it was going to break from practise. I wouldn't lower it any more than it is in fairness. it might well get used as a foxing rifle at some point and I'd rather know it was safe and know how to fire it, than have a hair trigger which would lead to injury!

I thought thats what the Arrows meant, but I think with everything going on I didnt pay attention to the wind, after I changed it, it did the opposite of what I was expecting and it threw me off, more than likely due to a gust.

I'll get there, all this malarky is new to me :grin:
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Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#7 Post by Ovenpaa »

First time out with a 'scoped rifle is always going to get you thinking, I have used them for years and still managed to wind the wind the wrong way in a competition and I know I am not the only one!
/d

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Dangermouse

Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#8 Post by Dangermouse »

TG,

I am afraid that I am going to have a bit of a rant here, but I am mindful that when not communicating face to face that much can be misunderstood when Reading what has been written.
New rifle, new reloaded/untested ammo, and not having zeroed!!


I know you are still finding your feet and I have followed your progress over the months but I have to question your approach to safety when I read comments like those above. I have not forgotten previous outings where you made ammunition that appeared to be the same length as factory rounds, and I wonder if your approach to re loading is not a touch cavalier.

From the comment I get the impression that you took a brand new rifle and used ammunition that you had made yourself in it, having not developed the load to that rifle. There are a number of safety issues that need looking at in relation to that.

I would ask you to sit down with an experienced re loader and start at the beginning, not only for your safety but also that of others who are in the vicinity of you on the firing point.

Re Not zeroing and the use of your scope adjustments.
I am not schooled in the total possible distance a .308 could fly if it misses the butts, but as it was big enough concern for the NRA to have to introduce Shooter Competency certificates due to the possibility that bullets could leave the danger area, then I assume it is a considerable distance.
I am surprised that your club allowed you to fire at 300 yards with this set up and I question the whole approach to safety. I assume that you do not have a Shooters safety certificate as part of proving that you are competent with a scoped rifle is demonstrating that you have knowledge on how to make adjustments to the scope.
If you had been shooting with me at Bisley then I would have had to have asked you not to shoot. I know that you have shot at Bisley so I hope that you are in the progress of obtaining a certificate. Should you already have one then I again question the method to which your club works.

Harsh words, but my concern is that no one gets injured and that everyone is able to enjoy the sport. As I said in my introduction, it is easy to misunderstand what has been communicated in a Forum, should I have read it all wrong then I apologise,

Take care,

DM
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Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#9 Post by TattooedGun »

Dangermouse wrote:TG,

I am afraid that I am going to have a bit of a rant here, but I am mindful that when not communicating face to face that much can be misunderstood when Reading what has been written.
New rifle, new reloaded/untested ammo, and not having zeroed!!


I know you are still finding your feet and I have followed your progress over the months but I have to question your approach to safety when I read comments like those above. I have not forgotten previous outings where you made ammunition that appeared to be the same length as factory rounds, and I wonder if your approach to re loading is not a touch cavalier.

From the comment I get the impression that you took a brand new rifle and used ammunition that you had made yourself in it, having not developed the load to that rifle. There are a number of safety issues that need looking at in relation to that.

I would ask you to sit down with an experienced re loader and start at the beginning, not only for your safety but also that of others who are in the vicinity of you on the firing point.

Re Not zeroing and the use of your scope adjustments.
I am not schooled in the total possible distance a .308 could fly if it misses the butts, but as it was big enough concern for the NRA to have to introduce Shooter Competency certificates due to the possibility that bullets could leave the danger area, then I assume it is a considerable distance.
I am surprised that your club allowed you to fire at 300 yards with this set up and I question the whole approach to safety. I assume that you do not have a Shooters safety certificate as part of proving that you are competent with a scoped rifle is demonstrating that you have knowledge on how to make adjustments to the scope.
If you had been shooting with me at Bisley then I would have had to have asked you not to shoot. I know that you have shot at Bisley so I hope that you are in the progress of obtaining a certificate. Should you already have one then I again question the method to which your club works.

Harsh words, but my concern is that no one gets injured and that everyone is able to enjoy the sport. As I said in my introduction, it is easy to misunderstand what has been communicated in a Forum, should I have read it all wrong then I apologise,

Take care,

DM
Whilst I may seem a little cavalier, there is always the possibility that I research thoroughly the methods in which I use when it comes to reloading.

There is a plethora of information regarding safe loads when it comes to the .223 for all the specifications that I have. Saami length, powder weight, bullet head and the primer. - whilst I didn't go for 10% under maximum powder charges, I certainly didnt go for the maximum charge either.

I made every effort to check that I was being safe at all times with regards this round, it was checked on various sources on the net from real world experience (sure, different rifles, but its not like I was jamming into the lands and hoping for the best), I also checked within quickload and I was nowhere near the top end of the pressure scale. nor was I near under pressuring the system. I fail to see what an experienced reloader could have done differently other than trial and error over many years, or is it just that you only trust information that comes from a book?

As for my previous posts where I did reload to what looked like the right length - I soon learned exactly what I was doing wrong and pulled the bullets, and I had no reason to try that methodology again? Do you seriously think I learn slower than a lab mouse?

As it happens I do have a shooting competency card. As I presume that Ovenpaa does, irrespective of the fact he too mentioned he too can turn the knobs the wrong way when on the firing point.

I see you focussed entirely on the negatives of what I posted, yet failed to notice that as the incompetent fool that you seem to make me out to be, I was in and around the V-bull for quite a while, dropping only 10 points on my first time out with a brand new rifle and shooting style to me.

Sure, I didn't get chance to Zero, unfortunately to my knowledge there are not a great deal of ranges around here where I can Zero my rifle as there are MV limits at most ranges. Luckily the people in my club realise this and we were prepared for the rounds to hit the bank (or the dirt), The rifle had at least been Bore Sighted and it was known not to be shooting straight up into the sky. Obviously, it wasn't as accurate as I'd like it to have been, but it certainly wasnt completely awry.

It's nice to see that you didn't read it all though, as you would have realised that it was .223 and not as you pointed out .308.

Again, when it comes to scope adjustments, it becomes a little more complicated when you go from smallbore, to fullbore and having opposite sight adjustments between them to then come accross to scopes and question if what you are doing is right, especially when the wind blows the bullet to the other of the V-bull. It doesnt mean I'm dangerous, it just means I was a little unsure, and I got confused on the firing point, which could have happened to anyone.

You realise that Load development is ADVANCED Reloading, and there are hundreds of thousands of people out there (not just this country) who just make rifle bullets using powder dippers (I wonder how many tenth of grain those are accurate to!) and a hammer press to make rounds to something like Saami lengths...

If I were truely worried about firing the "untested loads" through the unzeroed rifle then I wouldnt have shot. I would have waited until the next opportunity I could get to a zero range, and next a 100 yard range to do load development. As it happened we were still safe, and nobody got hurt, infact everyone involved had a good time!

I see why you might be concerned, but as for attacking me based on how I was 6 months ago before I learned anything about the subject and trying to imply that I'm still in exactly the same place is more than a little bit insulting.
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Re: Sunday March 18 2012 @ Kingsbury - NEW rifle!

#10 Post by Dr. Strangelove »

No offence intended, TG, but when you say something like
TattooedGun wrote:The rain was still coming, drizzling, almost relentlessly... I thought about what it might do to my rifle, but then thought "I've waited all damn week to shoot this rifle, it could be hailing and as long as I could see the target I'd give it a go!"...
and follow it with
TattooedGun wrote:If I were truely worried about firing the "untested loads" through the unzeroed rifle then I wouldnt have shot.
it seems somewhat contradictory. I realise that in the first quotation you're talking about poor weather and the second is about a hand load but it seems to suggest that you may not have taken as much care with the hand loading (because you were eager to try out your new rifle) as you might have done had you zeroed it with factory ammunition first.

I have next to no experience hand loading but when I put a scope on my .308 I'll zero it with factory ammo first to try and eliminate as many things that I could (and probably will) make a mistake on as possible!
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