Vickers Machine Gun Demonstration at Bisley, 3rd July

[Shpagin]

It's really easy. Bullets are the lumps of lead that come out the front of the barrel.
Cases are the brass things that hold the powder and into which the bullet fits.
And the HEAD is the bit that the primer sits in and has the HEADSTAMP marked on it.
And finally, the whole ensemble is called a round of ammunition.

Well, I learned here that the head is where the headstamp is marked.

I would already agree that the bullet is the lead, the brass bit is called, variously, the cartridge or the case and the whole assembly is called the round of ammunition. The artillery call the brass the "shell case", whether the two bits are connected or not; in the case of the 25pdr, the round of ammunition is in two parts which are loaded separately, for instance - the shell, then the case containing the charge.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that it is "easy, though. Because not everyone agrees.

[Shpagin]

Someone here will know - probably Bradaz11 - when did cartridges (meaning the entire bullet assembly) first get used? I associate it with the American Civil War. Does it start earlier?

[redcat]

the brass bit is called, variously, the cartridge or the case
The brass bit is called the case or cartridge case, not the cartridge

the whole assembly is called the round of ammunition.
The whole assembly is called the cartridge - "round" is a more modern term ad I'm sure someone wiser than me will know when it was actually first used.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that it is "easy, though. Because not everyone agrees.
Whether people agree or not there is correct terminology but this has been diluted over time.
Another one you may come across is the word "boolits" used to describe bullets that are totally lead without a partial or complete copper jacket. The word was coined some years ago by an American guy who used it as a catchy name for the lead bullets he made with large grease grooves for use with black powder, and it has since been used by some to describe all totally lead bullets.

.45 Long Colt is another misnomer - it is .45 Colt. Even Colt themselves now use ".45LC" on their website, but the pistols are marked ".45 Colt". There are no firearms to my knowledge with a ".45 Long Colt" calibre marking.

Redcat

[redcat]

Someone here will know - probably Bradaz11 - when did cartridges (meaning the entire bullet assembly) first get used? I associate it with the American Civil War. Does it start earlier?

The first successful metallic cartridges were the pinfire variants invented in France in the 1830's. They did not prove popular outside of Europe. The first cartridge as used today was patented by Smith & Wesson in 1855 and released with their Number 1 revolver in 1857. That cartridge is still around today - the .22 Short rimfire.

Redcat

[Shpagin]

That is all fascinating stuff Redcat. thanks very much. When you talk about the metallic cartridges invented in 1830, is that the complete cartridge that Bradaz11 refers to, where I think he means a bullet plus brass cartridge together, or do you mean the cartridge cases you referred to above?

[redcat]

Google "pinfire cartridges".

Redcat

[Shpagin]

If two historians or two gun dealers disagree about what things are called, can we really, any of us, claim that there is a correct terminology? All language evolves and words which once had currency may no longer do so. If the majority of modern people now call something a given name, which was previously called something else, who is to say what is correct?

Let me give you an example unconnected with guns, so that we don't need to be controversial. The control stick of an autogyro is called a control stick. Americans are fond of calling it a "cyclic" because they think of the autogyro as being a helicopter of sorts. It isn't. The autogyro does not have cyclic pitch control. So, even though the autogyro doesn't have cyclic pitch control, Americans call its stick a cyclic. The vast majority of autogyros are flown in America. What possible merit is there in arguing with all of them that the term they are using is incorrect? I can argue till I am blue in the face, but that stick will always be known as a cyclic, at least in the USA.

[Shpagin]

Google "pinfire cartridges".

Redcat

It looks like Pinfire cartridge boxes contain both the bullet and case, so this must be a situation in which cartridge means the whole assembly in the way that bradaz11 said. Is that right? I was not sure because it looked like what is distinct about them is the bit I would have called the cartridge case is the side pin, and of course if the method was used for shotgun cartridges as well, there wouldn't have been a single "bullet" projectile.

You can see that I am not even confident using the word bullet now. I think what is clear from this thread is that several people have slightly different understandings of terminology, and apart from me, people are absolutely sure they are right, but can't all be.

I am not uncomfortable with that because I don't believe in absolutes and I am suspicious of anyone's assertions of anything being "correct". And it doesn't seem to me to make sense to get angry with people for refusing to be corrected.

[redcat]

I'm not really sure you are ready to take up shooting as a hobby! You need to do a lot more reading - both on this forum and elsewhere.


Redcat

[Shpagin]

I'm not really sure you are ready to take up shooting as a hobby! You need to do a lot more reading - both on this forum and elsewhere.


Redcat

That is a funny thing to say. I am already shooting and enjoying it.