Mini/pocket cannon legality

[$harp$hooter]

I've done a search and read numerous threads about cannons and mini cannons but wanted to clarify something in relation to s58(2) and mini cannons.

I recently saw a pair of 13.5cm brass cannons for sale on evilbay with a bore 6mm in diameter. The seller stated in the listing that's these we're made approx 1920 an that they were live as the touch hole goes through the wall into the bore making it able to fire.

Now I missed the auction end and didn't bid but it got me thinking about their legality.

Withing s58(2) any muzzleloader is classed as 'antique', however seen as they could assumedly be filled with BP and fire a projectile, would this mean they then fall as a section 5 prohibited weapon due to barrel length or a section 2 requiring a SGC or even a section 1 FAC?

If someone could clarify if my thinking is right or correct me to get the right answer that would be great. I'm new to BP so trying to understand the law.

[Dangermouse]

You are going to do yourself some damage if you start to try and work out the UK firearms laws. Just sit down with a cup of tea and a rich tea and ponder an easy subject like quantum physics instead.

DM

[IainWR]

Wow.

Thanks for posing some difficult questions. I will pass them on to the NRAs Miniature Cannon representative.



I am not joking.

Iain
NRA Firearms Manager

[kennyc]

I would be interested to know the answer, a friend of mine collects desk cannon, and they are all in theory useable ?

[$harp$hooter]

I've been doing some asking around other forums and got this response:

"Home Office Guidance to the Police says that the Section 58(2) exemptions apply to pre 1939.

If the mini cannon mentioned are indeed from 1920, then provided that they are held as a "curiosity or ornament" they would comply with the guidance and not need a licence.

Part I: Old weapons which should
benefit from exemption as antiques
under section 58 (2) of the Firearms
Act 1968
8.5 Pre-1939 weapons to benefit from
exemption as antiques are as follows:
a) All muzzle-loading firearms;

Remember though that if there is any intent to use them, then they cease to be afforded the exemption offered by Sec 58(2) and would be subject to licencing.

8.4 It remains the case that where an antique
firearm is possessed for any other purpose
than as a “curiosity or ornament”, all the
provisions of the Firearms Acts from 1968 to
1997 will continue to apply, including those
relating to certificate requirements. The intent
to fire the gun concerned, even with blank
charge or ammunition (for example for the
purposes of historical re-enactment displays),
would take it beyond the terms of “curiosity
or ornament”.

Notice that the guidance says 'intent' not the actual act of firing it.

An online copy of the guidance is available here http://www.dyfed-powys.police.uk/arc...irearmsLaw.pdf

So that would answer my question if try are kept as a curiosity with no intent on firing them BUT if you intend to fire them they become subject to all the relevant legislation and would become section 1 I believe.

[ResearchPress]

Contact the MLAGB secretary. He runs the miniature cannon activities of the Association which include target shooting at 25m.

David

[LeighC]

I would suggest S1.... can't see that these are any different to a muzzle loading pistol. Seeing as Krank's sell them (brand new repro's) they would almost certainly fall under S1

[saddler]

I would suggest S1.... can't see that these are any different to a muzzle loading pistol. Seeing as Krank's sell them (brand new repro's) they would almost certainly fall under S1

NEW cannon = yes, I agree, S.1

OLD cannon = nope, S.58 (as per above) OR can be switched onto FAC, as can other S.58 arms IF the owner chooses to try shooting with them

[Demonic69]

OLD cannon = nope, S.58 (as per above) OR can be switched onto FAC, as can other S.58 arms IF the owner chooses to try shooting with them

But wouldn't it be OK on a FAC with S1 approved, as opposed to a S2, 5 or 7 etc?
Would you need to get S.58 added to your FAC?

[dromia]

Would you need to get S.58 added to your FAC?

No if it comes under S58 then it has nothing to do with your certificate, if you want to shoot a section 58 then it will become section1 and go on your certificate. If it is new manufacture then it is section one from the outset and you will need a slot for it on your FAC.