Flint locks/ percussion- questions

[JS569]

I shoot full bore centre fire both at targets and game but I've always quite fancied a BP rifle, musket or pistol. Currently my thoughts are for nothing serious, but perhaps something cheap and cheerful to get me into it/ scratch that itch.

My questions are, what do I need to do to apply for BP license on my FAC and what would people recommend as something to start with. I guess buying second had would be best and should I go with flint or percussion, pistol, musket, rifle- as you can see I'm a complete novice so any suggestions would be met with great interest. Thanks in advance!

[450 Martini]

My first black powder rifle was a Parker-Hale reproduction percussion .577 P58 enfield. These are amazing rifles that are great fun guns, and can group well out to 200 yards, there is nothing like setting one of these beauties off and dissapearing in a cloud of smoke.They really do take you back to the days of the crimean war and the indian mutiny, when 1/4 of the globe was British.
i would recommend one of the reproduction (parker-hale, euroarms) P53, P58 or P61 rifles as a starting black powder rifle, they are widely available on the 2nd hand market and if you cast your own bullets they are quite economical to run.
Regarding black powder if you want to use the real stuff you need to install a specialist powder storage box that is secured to the fabric of the building, these can be made or purchased. Then you need to fill in the explosives licence application form its available from your local licencing department and the licence is free of charge. This licence is not needed if you are using a black powder substitute such as pyrodex, this is a bit more expensive than the real stuff, but it can be purchased like any other reloading powder.
As for starting out in black powder rifle shooting i would reccomend this well written guide by WS Curtis http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms ... gement.htm

[IainWR]

Mostly: what he said

One point: a smoothbore musket is legally a shot gun (the gap between the two words is not a typo - see the definition in S1 Firearms Act 1968 as amended). So if you want one, you need a Shotgun Certificate. The good news is that from Dec 13, getting an SGC along with your FAC will be dead easy - it will all be on one form. A rifled muzzle loader will remain a S1 firearm.

Iain
NRA Firearms Liaison

[channel12]

Another option could be a second-hand smooth bore percussion muzzle loader as you already have a shotgun cert. There some about in .45 cal or .58 cal and they use a patched round ball which are easy to cast for and don't need to be soft lead.

see previous post

[Ovenpaa]

Ball on an S2? That is not a good idea.

[channel12]

Regarding black powder if you want to use the real stuff you need to install a specialist powder storage box that is secured to the fabric of the building, these can be made or purchased.

No! Your FEO may suggest you fix it to the fabric but your local fire officer would prefer it could be removed by you in case of fire. The Explosives legislation is a part of health & safety legislation not firearms legislation. The explosive legislation is in 3 levels, the law which says explosives must be stored safety, an approved code of practice (ACOP) which gives ways in which you can comply with the law and finally guidance. It's not an offence not to follow the ACOP provided what you are doing is a good or better than the ACOP. The much quoted multi-compartment wooden box is in the ACOP as an example of a suitable design for storing BP and smokeless together. Therefore all you need is a small stout wooden box large enough to hold a 500gm tub of BP.
(I would add that I was an authorised Health & Safety Inspector, so I do understand health & safety legislation)

[channel12]

Ball on an S2? That is not a good idea.

Yes it's legal for muzzle-loading S2, thought everybody knew that.

[450 Martini]

Thanks guys, i was not sure what the current school of thourght was on powder box storage and i only quoted what my FEO gave me as "offical policy" what they gave me as personal advice was more like what a fire safety officer might give out, secure the box itself but enable it to be quickly moved out in case of fire.

It's perfectly ok to use ball in section 2 firearm certified smooth bore muskets the MLAGB folks have never had a problem at thier smooth bore competitions, as long as its on a certified range its ok. A good scource for economical second hand smooth bores are Napoleonic/american civil war reenacting suppliers like west point or derbyshire arms, they and others like them get a lot of kit sold to them as older guys retire/change eras and they usually want a quick sale.

[Ovenpaa]

Yes it's legal for muzzle-loading S2, thought everybody knew that.

Obviously not.

I always thought Section 2 applied to Shotguns and by definition they were restricted to shot, from there the rule 'not less that 5 balls not exceeding 9mm....' would apply. It is apart of the law I know nothing about and luckily have no need to either.

[pe4king]

It can be cheap to get into, there are plenty of bargains out there, I picked up a .577 Parker Hale Musketoon S2 at the Phoenix for £120 and a .451 Euroarms 1853 Volunteer S1 for £150, I use 777 Powder and lead is free (roof pick ups).